There is a lot of misinformation out there on the topic of ice dams. Our goal here is to be the single definitive source for all things relating to ice dams. Towards that end, here are some common misconceptions about ice dams, roof snow, roof ice and gutter ice removal.
FACT: Ice dams can occur with virtually no snow on your roof. It’s a question of ice accumulations. It takes very little actual moisture to form ice dams. Even a dusting of snow can create a problem. Of course it is most often the case the thick snow accumulations create ice dams more quickly, but don’t be fooled into complacency because it’s a low snow season. See Case Study #09.
FICTION: Gutters have something to do with ice dams. The truth is gutters have nothing whatsoever to do with ice dams. See Case Study #03 for proof. If your home is prone to ice dams you will get them regardless of whether or not you have gutters. If you have gutters they will fill with ice and provide a foundation for the ice dam above. True. If you don’t have gutters, the ice dam simply builds on the cold edge of the roof. We provide ice dam removal for many homes each year that do not have gutters. In fact, some of our repeat clients have removed their gutters upon the advice of a dumb person only to be shocked that the ice dams came back the season after. Whoops.
FACT: Gutter systems can be damaged by ice. We see it every year. A section of otherwise fine gutter is either on the ground or hanging pathetically off the edge of the roof, filled with ice. Ice weighs about 60 pounds per cubic foot and gutters are not designed to tolerate that sort of load. It’s important to initiate gutter ice removal sooner than later for this reason. See Case Study #11 for common ice dam damage.
FICTION: When it comes to insulation, the more the better. Improperly insulated homes are just as bad as under insulated homes when it comes to ice dams. We have fixed countless bad insulation jobs for this reason. Specifically, we frequently find insulation done in such a way as to inhibit proper ventilation. Moreover, if you don’t address air leakage into the attic or rafter spaces, all the insulation in the world won’t prevent ice dams. See Case Study #04 for details about good eave ventilation.
FACT: You can’t always see ice dams from the ground. It’s true that you can often spot a monster ice dam quite quickly. It’s easy to spot the two foot icicles and the little adjoining glacier on your gutter. The sneaky ones are usually above skylights or in roof pan areas far out of sight. Sometimes ice dams grow up valleys and on top of dormers making it almost impossible to identify from the ground. See Case Study #02 for more information on where ice dams form on residential homes.
FICTION: Salt socks are a smart way to address ice dams. People use pantyhose, old socks and store-bought cloth tubes filled with a variety of ice-melting compounds for removing ice dams. Corrosive substances like rock salt, sodium chloride, calcium chloride, magnesium chloride and more to melt channels through their ice dams. Some compounds are better than others, but all present risks you should keep in mind. Some of the aforementioned chemicals affect the integrity or color of your roof, some are corrosive to the aluminum when gutter ice is removed this way, some are corrosive to valley metal and other flashings, some damage plant life as the water drains below. You are rolling the dice when you go this route so be aware. See Case Study #13 for more information on salt socks (salt in pantyhose).
FACT: Ice should be removed by steam. Here is the skinny. We are roofers and have fixed hundreds of roofs that have been damaged by well-intentioned professionals with hammers, picks and hatchets in their pursuit of removing ice dams to help their clients. The damage we have found caused by the less-than-professional souls is almost funny if it wasn’t so serious. In our years we have seen jobs with picks and hammers where removing ice dams was done successfully. It get’s down to the question of whether you want to take that risk? We strongly advise against the hack-a-teer approach even if it is a little cheaper. Roof Ice and Gutter Ice should always be removed with steam.
FICTION: Ice dams need to be thick to cause a problem. Ice dams as thin as one inch can cause big problems. A good general rule is that the steeper your roof, the thicker the ice dam has to be to cause problems. On lower pitched roofs even a thin ice dam can hurt.
FACT: The leaking caused by ice dams may not show up right away. It would be nice if water stains or mold manifested immediately upon entering your home but it simply does not work that way. Often the water that ice dams push into homes travels around wall and ceiling cavities, trapped by vapor barriers and other materials until it finds the path of least resistance to escape. By the time you see water inside, it’s usually been there for a while, which results in mold and mildew.
The Factors that Determine Ice Dam Removal Cost and Pricing
Ice Dam Removal Pricing
Generally speaking, you can expect to pay somewhere between $300 to $600 per hour for ice dam removal with steam. As much as you may not want to hear this, with over 25 years of experience behind us, we can tell you that the primary driver for ice dam pricing is classic supply and demand. Every market will have a different demand for ice dam removal and a different supply of qualified contractors to perform that work. (See Econ101 from your freshman year for further details). Back to the word “qualified”. There are dozens of companies in the Twin Cities market right now who are using ice picks and hammers and axes to remove ice dams. They normally charge less per hour than ice dam steaming contractors. There are also scores of competitors using high temperature pressure washers and calling them steamers (hint: 2 of the top 3 Google results in Minnesota). Yikes. In the Minneapolis market we profit by following the work of the aforementioned “professionals” by repairing the damage they’ve done each winter with pics and pressure washers. It’s hurts to pay for ice dam removal. It’s extra painful to pay for repairing the damage left behind by losers.
Ice Dam Removal Speed
There are many factors that go into determining how long an ice dam takes to remove:
Roof height (Higher = More difficult)
Roof pitch (Steeper = More difficult)
Snow load (More snow = More time)
Site protections time (Property under the work area needs to be protected to prevent damage from falling ice and snow)
Ice dam thickness (Thicker = More time)
Ice dam depth (The further it has grown up the roof, the longer removal takes)
Outdoor temps (Colder = More difficult)
Ethics (Lower ethics = More time spent)
Having two members to the crew is not only important to safety, it is essential for efficiency. One guy cuts and one guy throws the ice chunks.
To Chunk or Not to Chunk
There is a big difference between ice dam removal COST and ice dam removal PRICING. Pricing is what one typically pays per hour for the work to be performed. Cost relates to how long it takes to do the job. In our list of the 8 factors that determine ice dam removal cost, #8 is the most important. That’s what the photos in this case study are meant to illustrate. Ethical ice dam removal guys do it like shown and they use steam, not high temperature pressure washers. It’s called ‘chunking’. The idea is simple. Use the steamer to cut the ice dam into chunks that can be picked up and thrown off the roof. Cutting ice is the part of the job that takes the longest. Add to cutting time, add to the job cost. The alternative is to use the steamer-or pressure washer if you’re totally smarmy-to methodically melt away ALL of the ice from the roof, one square inch at a time. As shown here, one only needs to actually melt about 5-10% of the ice in order to remove the ice dam. Make slots and undercut. It’s that simple. What the less ethical players do is also simple. Melt all of the ice, milk the clock and watch the dollars add up.
The Truth About Gutters and their Relationship with Ice Dams
In 2011, Ice Dam Company owner Steve Kuhl wrote a nationally published article about ice dams for the Journal of Light Construction. One of the topics that receieved the most attention was the notion that gutters have nothing to do with ice dams. Here is a deeper look at that assertion.
There is a great deal of confusion and misinformation about the relationship between gutters and ice dams. Many people are under the misconception that gutters cause ice dams or that gutters filled with ice can cause water to back up into homes. Not true. We repeat. Gutters have nothing to do with ice dam formation or severity. For this reason, buying systems that heat gutters in order to prevent ice dams is a total and complete waste of money.
We know that ice dams occure when:
Escaped heat from the inside of the home warms the roof deck.
Melting snow results in water that runs down to a cold, unheated area of the roof (frequently the eave, as shown below).
That water freezes, forming ice. After many of these cycles, that ice piles up to form an ice dam.
Study the illustrations below. These are identical eave designs, one with gutters, the other without. The Area B in the diagrams below is referred to as the ‘cold edge’ of the eave because heat from the interior of the home doesn’t travel that far. Fact One: Whether or not a home has gutters, a cold edge will still exist and this is where ice dams form. Fact Two: leaks from ice dams occur in Area A, at the leading, top edge of the ice dam where water–with nowhere else to go–is forced up under the roofing material and into the home. Put another way, if the home in Figure 2 had bad leaks inside, those leaks would not be eliminated whatsoever if we took a chainsaw and cut off the gutters along the red dashed line (C). Moreover, if we heated the gutters using a fancy electrical system, the likelihood of ice dams and the subsequent leaking would NOT be affected. Spend money on heat cables for the lower edge of your roof, not on heating the gutters only. High quality heat cables can be quite effective in preventing ice dams.
Figure 1: Ice Dam Without Gutters; Figure 2: Ice Dam With Gutters
None of this is to suggest that ice in gutters are harmless. We have seen many gutters damaged or destroyed by ice dams and that is a problem most homeowners would like to avoid. The point here is that, all else held equal, if a home is likely to get ice dams the addition or deletion of gutters will be of no consequence to the formation or severity of said ice dams. Likewise, for this reason, installing heated gutters or adding heating systems to existing gutters will have no affect whatsoever on the occurrence or severity of ice dams.
To read more Case Studies click here.
How to Know if You Have an Ice Dam Problem or Just Some Pretty Icicles
Here are six things you can look out for when determining how severe your roof ice dam issues may be:
Icicles forming on the edge of your roof (with or without gutters).
Ice begins to build on top of the gutter or lower edge of roof. Remember: Ice dams as little as 1″ thick can cause big problems on certain roods. Don’t be fooled by small ice dams.
Icicles forming behind the gutter, or worse, behind the facia.
Ice begins coming through the soffits, normally through vents or through seams in the soffit. This is bad news. Next stop, your ceilings.
Ice or water shows up on the siding or exterior wall surface. Ice can appear in the anywhere along the wall, even randomly in the middle.
Ice or water shows up inside your home or around the window frame (interior or exterior). This is really bad news.
Call The Ice Dam Company at 952.935.9469 for help with your ice dams today.
I was recently interviewed by Realtor Magazine for a piece about preparing home buyers for severe weather –including Ice Dams, why ice dams happen and ice dam prevention methods.
The piece also discusses other weather related problems and disasters that can happen from strong winter weather. Check it out. I am frequently interviewed from media and professional sources from all around the country on the topic of ice dams because I started The Ice Dam Company so long ago. We are in fact the largest and the oldest ice dam prevention and ice dam removal company in the country. Before the Ice Dam Company, no other company existed that specialized in this area of business. Now, of course, the web is littered with ‘experts’ and ‘specialists’ purporting to be leaders.
Attic insulation contractor addresses ice dams with new insulation in Edina
Using the words ‘ice dam prevention’ in Minneapolis is a dangerous gamble. It’s true that with certain efforts one can greatly reduce the chances of getting ice dams, it is almost impossible to prevent them altogether. For example, we can do a top quality insulation and ventilation retrofit on a Minneapolis attic only to be thwarted by the fact that the homeowner likes to keep the attic at 90 degrees in the winter. That is a formula for ice dam disaster in Minnesota. There are a number of methods to employ in preventing ice dams (or reducing their severity, in some cases). Here are links to two such approaches used by our sister company, Kuhl’s Contracting, a nationally recognized ice dam prevention company.
Homeowners looking to fix or at least minimize the risk of ice dams in Minnesota are wise to look at the key contributing factors that spawn ice dams. Those are, the weather, insulation, ventilation, air leaks, personal lifestyle and home architecture. We are frequently successful in reducing and/or eliminating ice dams through the use of high performance spray foam insulation systems in combination with enhanced attic ventilation.
construction site ice removal, commercial ice removal, ice accumulation removal minneapolis, ice dam company
We have been called by property managers and builders to remove ice from a number of odd areas in Minneapolis over the years. Heck, we have even removed ice during the summer around cooling condensers at a chemical plant. While we frequently use our high-end steamers for the removal of ice, sometimes they are simply not appropriate. Such was the case on a recent job at a hotel under construction. A thin layer of ice had built up on the surface of a concrete floor that was perfectly flat…and huge. Using steamers in this application would have possibly resulted in making the problem worse by adding more water to the situation. While our steamers don’t generate much water, any time you melt ice, water is the result. Hence, my concern was that we would create a big mess. I suggested that we go old-school on this challenge. I sent three of my guys out there to hack and chip the ice with shiny, new scrapers. The resulting ice chips were simply blown and swept off the concrete, allowing the project carpenters to follow closely behind and lay out the wall framing without concern. It’s a low tech solution but sometimes that is what’s best.
Ice removal minneapolis commercial ice removal from flat surface
This past week, we were called out to a Fairview Hospital to resolve an ongoing roof leak in their EPDM roof or rubber roof. The roof leak, they suspected, was being caused by an massive ice build up on their flat roof. The area covered in ice was approximately 1200 square feet and ranged between 3-5″ thick. They had gotten another bid from acompetitor to remove the entire ice field for around $8,000.
Upon visiting the site, we quickly determined it was not necessary to remove the entire ice field in the area. Our experience as professional roofers and our use of thermal imaging quickly pointed us to a bad corner flashing detail as shown here. This area was completely covered by ice and was the main source of their leak.
The job was quite simple. We used our commercial steamers to cut through the ice and clear a channel from the area around the leak to the nearest roof drain. This allowed any melted snow/ice to run directly to the drain, instead of being dammed up and leaking into the hospital.
We also removed a the large section of ice that surrounded the leak area to allow for proper repair of the roofing and flashing that had failed. Fairview was so happy with our work that they ended up having us remove rest of the ice in that surrounding area. In the end, our cost for all of the work was half that of our competitor’s estimate. We pride ourselves in doing business under the philosophy that we’re trying to build lasting, honest relationships. Not just trying to earn the quick buck. Our guess is that we will be called for all ice removal needs by the Fairview Hospital network going forward. A lot of ice removal companies in the Minneapolis area are allergic to honesty. Perhaps Fairview has an ointment for that?
To prevent an ice dam, don’t heat the roof, keep it cold. That way, the snow on the roof eventually dissipates without making large amounts of meltwater. The underside of the roof deck should not exceed 30 F. The best way to maintain low temperatures is by ensuring that there is adequate insulation and sealing gaps that let warm air pass into the attic from the house. The attic must also be ventilated, so that cold air is introduced into it and heated air escapes rapidly. Some remodeling contractors are under the impression that heat passing through the attic helps prevent ice dams, when just the opposite is true. Although excess heat moving from the attic through the roof rapidly melts snow, once the meltwater touches the cold eaves, it quickly freezes and forms an ice dam.
…Then the article falls short at really looking at solutions to identify root problems (other then proper insulation) and determining solutions. Instead it looks at situations where there’s a furnace in the attic, and then turns it’s focus to cosmetically hiding symptoms of ice dams. Before you go this route, you really should determine what the underlying problem is, and fix it.
Removing Ice Dams in Minnesota: We Serve Many Areas in the Minneapolis Metro
The Ice Dam company based out of Hopkins, Minnesota, about 5 miles west of Minneapolis. We've done gutter ice removal, roof ice removal and ice dam removal all over the Twin Cities, on new houses and old ones.
Some of the more frequent places we've done ice dam services are:
